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	Comments on: Embracing the Values of Sustainable and Democratic Societies (part 2)	</title>
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	<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-2/</link>
	<description>Social movement strategy for a sustainable and democratic society</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2025 17:55:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		By: admin		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-2/#comment-1304</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2024 17:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=1575#comment-1304</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-2/#comment-1303&quot;&gt;Wayne Bachner&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you for the comment, Wayne! I agree that the challenge may not be as much about shifting values as about reframing things. When I initially put together an outline for this chapter, I realized I had assumed much of the discussion would focus on value shifting. But though I think value shifts to some extent would be necessary to organize a transition towards eco-democratic societies, I&#039;ve since realized that the task may be more about aligning our actions with values we already possess. As you point out, there&#039;s no connection between the way the word &quot;conservative&quot; is used nowadays and any reasonable definition of it (or any values supposedly associated with &quot;conservative&quot; as a political label). 

I have previously come across the idea you described about evolution leaving us disadvantaged when facing longer-term problems. It certainly seems plausible (I haven&#039;t looked into expert views), but in my opinion it&#039;s only relevant if it makes us more strategic in planning a transition. Are there ways to turn people&#039;s attention more towards the long term? I believe there are. When trying to be a strategic transition planner, we&#039;ll encounter lots of factors that represent obstacles and others that represent opportunities, but dwelling on obstacles we can&#039;t do much about can lure us into thinking we have no responsibility to act. 

You&#039;re certainly right that we are prone to motivated reasoning and confirmation bias, and that&#039;s one major reason I believe we&#039;ll need to cultivate our &lt;a href=&quot;https://freedomsurvival.org/critical-thinking-vital-for-creating-sustainable-and-democratic-societies/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;noopener ugc&quot;&gt;critical thinking identity&lt;/a&gt; if we&#039;re to make this transition possible.

Ultimately, we don&#039;t (and likely could never) know for sure whether our actions will allow us to create sustainable societies. But in my opinion, the relevant question is not, &quot;can we be sure we&#039;ll succeed?&quot; but rather, &quot;what should we do?&quot; It&#039;s hard to imagine there&#039;s a project that can deliver as much meaning to our lives as this.

Aaron]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-2/#comment-1303">Wayne Bachner</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you for the comment, Wayne! I agree that the challenge may not be as much about shifting values as about reframing things. When I initially put together an outline for this chapter, I realized I had assumed much of the discussion would focus on value shifting. But though I think value shifts to some extent would be necessary to organize a transition towards eco-democratic societies, I&#8217;ve since realized that the task may be more about aligning our actions with values we already possess. As you point out, there&#8217;s no connection between the way the word &#8220;conservative&#8221; is used nowadays and any reasonable definition of it (or any values supposedly associated with &#8220;conservative&#8221; as a political label). </p>
<p>I have previously come across the idea you described about evolution leaving us disadvantaged when facing longer-term problems. It certainly seems plausible (I haven&#8217;t looked into expert views), but in my opinion it&#8217;s only relevant if it makes us more strategic in planning a transition. Are there ways to turn people&#8217;s attention more towards the long term? I believe there are. When trying to be a strategic transition planner, we&#8217;ll encounter lots of factors that represent obstacles and others that represent opportunities, but dwelling on obstacles we can&#8217;t do much about can lure us into thinking we have no responsibility to act. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re certainly right that we are prone to motivated reasoning and confirmation bias, and that&#8217;s one major reason I believe we&#8217;ll need to cultivate our <a href="https://freedomsurvival.org/critical-thinking-vital-for-creating-sustainable-and-democratic-societies/" target="_blank" rel="noopener ugc">critical thinking identity</a> if we&#8217;re to make this transition possible.</p>
<p>Ultimately, we don&#8217;t (and likely could never) know for sure whether our actions will allow us to create sustainable societies. But in my opinion, the relevant question is not, &#8220;can we be sure we&#8217;ll succeed?&#8221; but rather, &#8220;what should we do?&#8221; It&#8217;s hard to imagine there&#8217;s a project that can deliver as much meaning to our lives as this.</p>
<p>Aaron</p>
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			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Wayne Bachner		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-2/#comment-1303</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Bachner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2024 13:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=1575#comment-1303</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My thoughts are that it&#039;s not so much about changing values as reframing the situation. I actually had a dream after reading these notes in which I found myself telling people, &quot;addressing climate change is a conservative value.&quot; The idea being that conservatives often tout family well-being as being one of their bedrock values. What greater enemy to this well-being than global warming?

The difficulty, I believe, is in how evolution has shaped the human brain. There was a great book in the early &#039;80&#039;s about this, don&#039;t recall the name--I may have it lying around in one of my piles of books--that talked about how there was strong survival value in the early days of man for noticing abrupt changes in our surroundings--a crackling of leaves, a movement of branches--and none for slow, gradual changes. I think that&#039;s where the problem lies: people are wired to pay attention to immediate problems (paying bills; feeling safe from crime) rather than bigger but less dramatic problems that are going to have a greater impact on them in the long run.

I think certain psychological factors (also hard-wired by evolution) enter into this issue, such as observation bias. People in general have a poor understanding of statistics (one of my favorite books is about this, called &quot;The Drunkard&#039;s Walk&quot;) and grab onto any &#039;evidence&#039; that supports their pre-existing beliefs while ignoring the &#039;evidence&#039; that doesn&#039;t, even if it&#039;s much more substantial. So we have people that will look at today&#039;s freezing weather and predicted snowfall as &#039;proof&#039; that global warming is a scam, despite the past several years displaying record warmth on average.

These may be insurmountable challenges to creating the huge, planet-wide coalition needed to avoid imminent disaster, I&#039;m afraid.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My thoughts are that it&#8217;s not so much about changing values as reframing the situation. I actually had a dream after reading these notes in which I found myself telling people, &#8220;addressing climate change is a conservative value.&#8221; The idea being that conservatives often tout family well-being as being one of their bedrock values. What greater enemy to this well-being than global warming?</p>
<p>The difficulty, I believe, is in how evolution has shaped the human brain. There was a great book in the early &#8217;80&#8217;s about this, don&#8217;t recall the name&#8211;I may have it lying around in one of my piles of books&#8211;that talked about how there was strong survival value in the early days of man for noticing abrupt changes in our surroundings&#8211;a crackling of leaves, a movement of branches&#8211;and none for slow, gradual changes. I think that&#8217;s where the problem lies: people are wired to pay attention to immediate problems (paying bills; feeling safe from crime) rather than bigger but less dramatic problems that are going to have a greater impact on them in the long run.</p>
<p>I think certain psychological factors (also hard-wired by evolution) enter into this issue, such as observation bias. People in general have a poor understanding of statistics (one of my favorite books is about this, called &#8220;The Drunkard&#8217;s Walk&#8221;) and grab onto any &#8216;evidence&#8217; that supports their pre-existing beliefs while ignoring the &#8216;evidence&#8217; that doesn&#8217;t, even if it&#8217;s much more substantial. So we have people that will look at today&#8217;s freezing weather and predicted snowfall as &#8216;proof&#8217; that global warming is a scam, despite the past several years displaying record warmth on average.</p>
<p>These may be insurmountable challenges to creating the huge, planet-wide coalition needed to avoid imminent disaster, I&#8217;m afraid.</p>
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