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	<title>
	Comments for Freedom and Survival	</title>
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	<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/</link>
	<description>Social movement strategy for a sustainable and democratic society</description>
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		<title>
		Comment on Climate Justice in an Ethically Complex World by admin		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-justice-in-an-ethically-complex-world/#comment-1691</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jan 2025 04:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=1598#comment-1691</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-justice-in-an-ethically-complex-world/#comment-1676&quot;&gt;Susan Butler&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you for the comment, Susan! As you said, we can learn--that belief motivates me. I am doing my best to put together tools we can use to cultivate our agency, because I think it&#039;s a worthwhile goal and will help communities in either scenario of transition or collapse. 

Aaron]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-justice-in-an-ethically-complex-world/#comment-1676">Susan Butler</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you for the comment, Susan! As you said, we can learn&#8211;that belief motivates me. I am doing my best to put together tools we can use to cultivate our agency, because I think it&#8217;s a worthwhile goal and will help communities in either scenario of transition or collapse. </p>
<p>Aaron</p>
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		Comment on Climate Justice in an Ethically Complex World by Susan Butler		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-justice-in-an-ethically-complex-world/#comment-1676</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan Butler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jan 2025 18:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=1598#comment-1676</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes, conversations about ethical dilemmas within the climate movement are helpful.  Even though we really have very little agency in the matter.  We are a biological animal species doing what other animals always do when they find a rich food source --we&#039;re in overshoot. And there will be a die-off, inevitably. There will be an uncontrolled die-off. What we can control is our response to this predicament. The &quot;transition&quot; ain&#039;t gonna happen. It&#039;s a fossil-fuel-based highly industrial &quot;solution.&quot; Right when our highly interdependent industrial civilization is going down. At best, some communities in some areas will survive intact enough to preserve some of the knowledge we have developed. They will start over again with far fewer people, perhaps with a leg-up from our epoch. 
      The locus of our agency is within our own hearts and minds, and to some extent within our local communities. Anything beyond that is a cringeworthy Punch and Judy show. We are a childish species. But we can learn.
   There is no absolute scarcity. But in overshoot there is nothing but scarcity. A mature species avoids overshoot. Reality is a harsh taskmaster.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, conversations about ethical dilemmas within the climate movement are helpful.  Even though we really have very little agency in the matter.  We are a biological animal species doing what other animals always do when they find a rich food source &#8211;we&#8217;re in overshoot. And there will be a die-off, inevitably. There will be an uncontrolled die-off. What we can control is our response to this predicament. The &#8220;transition&#8221; ain&#8217;t gonna happen. It&#8217;s a fossil-fuel-based highly industrial &#8220;solution.&#8221; Right when our highly interdependent industrial civilization is going down. At best, some communities in some areas will survive intact enough to preserve some of the knowledge we have developed. They will start over again with far fewer people, perhaps with a leg-up from our epoch.<br />
      The locus of our agency is within our own hearts and minds, and to some extent within our local communities. Anything beyond that is a cringeworthy Punch and Judy show. We are a childish species. But we can learn.<br />
   There is no absolute scarcity. But in overshoot there is nothing but scarcity. A mature species avoids overshoot. Reality is a harsh taskmaster.</p>
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		<title>
		Comment on Climate Justice in an Ethically Complex World by admin		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-justice-in-an-ethically-complex-world/#comment-1490</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Aug 2024 02:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=1598#comment-1490</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-justice-in-an-ethically-complex-world/#comment-1489&quot;&gt;Lorna Salzman&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Lorna,

Thank you for your comment. I&#039;m not assuming or saying that all people should bear an equal burden in a rapid transition. One point I&#039;m trying to make is that there is no single answer as to what is just--there are trade-offs with any decision we make. Our standard of justice must recognize that, or we may not be able to build a transition movement that can stick together in the face of hard choices. Also, the wealthiest 10% of the population is &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-022-00955-z&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;responsible for&lt;/a&gt; half of today&#039;s emissions, so though the lifestyles of the 1% (who account for a quarter of emissions) stand to change the most from a transition, everyday people in high-income countries would also need to adapt. All attempts to create societies that respect ecological limits will be called unjust by some, and activists who are motivated by the idea of fighting for justice will have to prepare for that.

Aaron]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-justice-in-an-ethically-complex-world/#comment-1489">Lorna Salzman</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Lorna,</p>
<p>Thank you for your comment. I&#8217;m not assuming or saying that all people should bear an equal burden in a rapid transition. One point I&#8217;m trying to make is that there is no single answer as to what is just&#8211;there are trade-offs with any decision we make. Our standard of justice must recognize that, or we may not be able to build a transition movement that can stick together in the face of hard choices. Also, the wealthiest 10% of the population is <a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-022-00955-z" rel="nofollow ugc">responsible for</a> half of today&#8217;s emissions, so though the lifestyles of the 1% (who account for a quarter of emissions) stand to change the most from a transition, everyday people in high-income countries would also need to adapt. All attempts to create societies that respect ecological limits will be called unjust by some, and activists who are motivated by the idea of fighting for justice will have to prepare for that.</p>
<p>Aaron</p>
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		<title>
		Comment on Climate Justice in an Ethically Complex World by Lorna Salzman		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-justice-in-an-ethically-complex-world/#comment-1489</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lorna Salzman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Aug 2024 01:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=1598#comment-1489</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why do you assume that everyone, regardless of income or wealth, should bear an equal burden in shifting away from fossil fuels? If you believe in ethics in real life, then confront the fact that the 1% obscenely wealthy humans contribute more to climate change than poor workers earning a minimum wage?
How can you talk about a transition without assigning proper blame and costs on those who consume the most: the rich? Get real.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you assume that everyone, regardless of income or wealth, should bear an equal burden in shifting away from fossil fuels? If you believe in ethics in real life, then confront the fact that the 1% obscenely wealthy humans contribute more to climate change than poor workers earning a minimum wage?<br />
How can you talk about a transition without assigning proper blame and costs on those who consume the most: the rich? Get real.</p>
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		<title>
		Comment on Embracing the Values of Sustainable and Democratic Societies (part 2) by admin		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-2/#comment-1304</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2024 17:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=1575#comment-1304</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-2/#comment-1303&quot;&gt;Wayne Bachner&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you for the comment, Wayne! I agree that the challenge may not be as much about shifting values as about reframing things. When I initially put together an outline for this chapter, I realized I had assumed much of the discussion would focus on value shifting. But though I think value shifts to some extent would be necessary to organize a transition towards eco-democratic societies, I&#039;ve since realized that the task may be more about aligning our actions with values we already possess. As you point out, there&#039;s no connection between the way the word &quot;conservative&quot; is used nowadays and any reasonable definition of it (or any values supposedly associated with &quot;conservative&quot; as a political label). 

I have previously come across the idea you described about evolution leaving us disadvantaged when facing longer-term problems. It certainly seems plausible (I haven&#039;t looked into expert views), but in my opinion it&#039;s only relevant if it makes us more strategic in planning a transition. Are there ways to turn people&#039;s attention more towards the long term? I believe there are. When trying to be a strategic transition planner, we&#039;ll encounter lots of factors that represent obstacles and others that represent opportunities, but dwelling on obstacles we can&#039;t do much about can lure us into thinking we have no responsibility to act. 

You&#039;re certainly right that we are prone to motivated reasoning and confirmation bias, and that&#039;s one major reason I believe we&#039;ll need to cultivate our &lt;a href=&quot;https://freedomsurvival.org/critical-thinking-vital-for-creating-sustainable-and-democratic-societies/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;noopener ugc&quot;&gt;critical thinking identity&lt;/a&gt; if we&#039;re to make this transition possible.

Ultimately, we don&#039;t (and likely could never) know for sure whether our actions will allow us to create sustainable societies. But in my opinion, the relevant question is not, &quot;can we be sure we&#039;ll succeed?&quot; but rather, &quot;what should we do?&quot; It&#039;s hard to imagine there&#039;s a project that can deliver as much meaning to our lives as this.

Aaron]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-2/#comment-1303">Wayne Bachner</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you for the comment, Wayne! I agree that the challenge may not be as much about shifting values as about reframing things. When I initially put together an outline for this chapter, I realized I had assumed much of the discussion would focus on value shifting. But though I think value shifts to some extent would be necessary to organize a transition towards eco-democratic societies, I&#8217;ve since realized that the task may be more about aligning our actions with values we already possess. As you point out, there&#8217;s no connection between the way the word &#8220;conservative&#8221; is used nowadays and any reasonable definition of it (or any values supposedly associated with &#8220;conservative&#8221; as a political label). </p>
<p>I have previously come across the idea you described about evolution leaving us disadvantaged when facing longer-term problems. It certainly seems plausible (I haven&#8217;t looked into expert views), but in my opinion it&#8217;s only relevant if it makes us more strategic in planning a transition. Are there ways to turn people&#8217;s attention more towards the long term? I believe there are. When trying to be a strategic transition planner, we&#8217;ll encounter lots of factors that represent obstacles and others that represent opportunities, but dwelling on obstacles we can&#8217;t do much about can lure us into thinking we have no responsibility to act. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re certainly right that we are prone to motivated reasoning and confirmation bias, and that&#8217;s one major reason I believe we&#8217;ll need to cultivate our <a href="https://freedomsurvival.org/critical-thinking-vital-for-creating-sustainable-and-democratic-societies/" target="_blank" rel="noopener ugc">critical thinking identity</a> if we&#8217;re to make this transition possible.</p>
<p>Ultimately, we don&#8217;t (and likely could never) know for sure whether our actions will allow us to create sustainable societies. But in my opinion, the relevant question is not, &#8220;can we be sure we&#8217;ll succeed?&#8221; but rather, &#8220;what should we do?&#8221; It&#8217;s hard to imagine there&#8217;s a project that can deliver as much meaning to our lives as this.</p>
<p>Aaron</p>
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		<title>
		Comment on Embracing the Values of Sustainable and Democratic Societies (part 2) by Wayne Bachner		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-2/#comment-1303</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Bachner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2024 13:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=1575#comment-1303</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My thoughts are that it&#039;s not so much about changing values as reframing the situation. I actually had a dream after reading these notes in which I found myself telling people, &quot;addressing climate change is a conservative value.&quot; The idea being that conservatives often tout family well-being as being one of their bedrock values. What greater enemy to this well-being than global warming?

The difficulty, I believe, is in how evolution has shaped the human brain. There was a great book in the early &#039;80&#039;s about this, don&#039;t recall the name--I may have it lying around in one of my piles of books--that talked about how there was strong survival value in the early days of man for noticing abrupt changes in our surroundings--a crackling of leaves, a movement of branches--and none for slow, gradual changes. I think that&#039;s where the problem lies: people are wired to pay attention to immediate problems (paying bills; feeling safe from crime) rather than bigger but less dramatic problems that are going to have a greater impact on them in the long run.

I think certain psychological factors (also hard-wired by evolution) enter into this issue, such as observation bias. People in general have a poor understanding of statistics (one of my favorite books is about this, called &quot;The Drunkard&#039;s Walk&quot;) and grab onto any &#039;evidence&#039; that supports their pre-existing beliefs while ignoring the &#039;evidence&#039; that doesn&#039;t, even if it&#039;s much more substantial. So we have people that will look at today&#039;s freezing weather and predicted snowfall as &#039;proof&#039; that global warming is a scam, despite the past several years displaying record warmth on average.

These may be insurmountable challenges to creating the huge, planet-wide coalition needed to avoid imminent disaster, I&#039;m afraid.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My thoughts are that it&#8217;s not so much about changing values as reframing the situation. I actually had a dream after reading these notes in which I found myself telling people, &#8220;addressing climate change is a conservative value.&#8221; The idea being that conservatives often tout family well-being as being one of their bedrock values. What greater enemy to this well-being than global warming?</p>
<p>The difficulty, I believe, is in how evolution has shaped the human brain. There was a great book in the early &#8217;80&#8217;s about this, don&#8217;t recall the name&#8211;I may have it lying around in one of my piles of books&#8211;that talked about how there was strong survival value in the early days of man for noticing abrupt changes in our surroundings&#8211;a crackling of leaves, a movement of branches&#8211;and none for slow, gradual changes. I think that&#8217;s where the problem lies: people are wired to pay attention to immediate problems (paying bills; feeling safe from crime) rather than bigger but less dramatic problems that are going to have a greater impact on them in the long run.</p>
<p>I think certain psychological factors (also hard-wired by evolution) enter into this issue, such as observation bias. People in general have a poor understanding of statistics (one of my favorite books is about this, called &#8220;The Drunkard&#8217;s Walk&#8221;) and grab onto any &#8216;evidence&#8217; that supports their pre-existing beliefs while ignoring the &#8216;evidence&#8217; that doesn&#8217;t, even if it&#8217;s much more substantial. So we have people that will look at today&#8217;s freezing weather and predicted snowfall as &#8216;proof&#8217; that global warming is a scam, despite the past several years displaying record warmth on average.</p>
<p>These may be insurmountable challenges to creating the huge, planet-wide coalition needed to avoid imminent disaster, I&#8217;m afraid.</p>
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		<title>
		Comment on Educating for Climate Activism, Autonomy, and System Change by admin		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/educating-for-climate-activism-autonomy-and-system-change/#comment-1185</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jan 2024 22:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=1053#comment-1185</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://freedomsurvival.org/educating-for-climate-activism-autonomy-and-system-change/#comment-1184&quot;&gt;Dina&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you for the kind words, Dina! It&#039;s terrific to hear that you&#039;re finding this piece useful as you develop your curriculum!

Regards,
Aaron]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://freedomsurvival.org/educating-for-climate-activism-autonomy-and-system-change/#comment-1184">Dina</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you for the kind words, Dina! It&#8217;s terrific to hear that you&#8217;re finding this piece useful as you develop your curriculum!</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Aaron</p>
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		Comment on Educating for Climate Activism, Autonomy, and System Change by Dina		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/educating-for-climate-activism-autonomy-and-system-change/#comment-1184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dina]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jan 2024 21:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=1053#comment-1184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you for outlining what a climate curriculum could look like and the resources that inspire the work.  We need this.  I will be reading your recommendations in the coming weeks and incorporating content where I can into my curriculum.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for outlining what a climate curriculum could look like and the resources that inspire the work.  We need this.  I will be reading your recommendations in the coming weeks and incorporating content where I can into my curriculum.</p>
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		<title>
		Comment on Embracing the Values of Sustainable and Democratic Societies (part 1) by admin		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-1/#comment-1182</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jan 2024 23:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=1520#comment-1182</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-1/#comment-1181&quot;&gt;Kathy Masis&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you for the kind words and for sharing these resources, Kathy! I&#039;ll look into them. I&#039;ve come across the concept of &quot;right relationship&quot; in a couple places, and I currently see it as a unifying theme for the values of the societies we must create. It&#039;s great to hear that you&#039;re already doing this sort of introspection about values--I hope to encourage lots of people to do the same.

Regards,
Aaron]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-1/#comment-1181">Kathy Masis</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you for the kind words and for sharing these resources, Kathy! I&#8217;ll look into them. I&#8217;ve come across the concept of &#8220;right relationship&#8221; in a couple places, and I currently see it as a unifying theme for the values of the societies we must create. It&#8217;s great to hear that you&#8217;re already doing this sort of introspection about values&#8211;I hope to encourage lots of people to do the same.</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Aaron</p>
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		<title>
		Comment on Embracing the Values of Sustainable and Democratic Societies (part 1) by Kathy Masis		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/embracing-the-values-of-sustainable-and-democratic-societies-part-1/#comment-1181</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kathy Masis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jan 2024 22:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=1520#comment-1181</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I applaud your investigations into Conscious Values Shifts. I have been examining my behavior and values in light of challenges and advice I was given by  Dine&#039; and Northern Plains Tribal people in the work setting. Right relationships, respect, consent, and reciprocity are among the ideas and values I did not bring with me from the dominant society. Tyson Yunkaporta&#039;s book &quot;Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking can Save the World&quot; has been helpful to me, as have the interviews in &quot;We are the Middle of Forever&quot; by Dahr Jamall and Stan Rushworth. Values that underlie our governing include the Doctrine of Discovery. It is from the 15th Century and pervades our society still. Most people I talk to have never heard of it. Darcia Narvaes&#039; work is another recommendation. &quot;Hospicing Modernity&quot; by Vanessa Andreotti Thank you for taking on this important work.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I applaud your investigations into Conscious Values Shifts. I have been examining my behavior and values in light of challenges and advice I was given by  Dine&#8217; and Northern Plains Tribal people in the work setting. Right relationships, respect, consent, and reciprocity are among the ideas and values I did not bring with me from the dominant society. Tyson Yunkaporta&#8217;s book &#8220;Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking can Save the World&#8221; has been helpful to me, as have the interviews in &#8220;We are the Middle of Forever&#8221; by Dahr Jamall and Stan Rushworth. Values that underlie our governing include the Doctrine of Discovery. It is from the 15th Century and pervades our society still. Most people I talk to have never heard of it. Darcia Narvaes&#8217; work is another recommendation. &#8220;Hospicing Modernity&#8221; by Vanessa Andreotti Thank you for taking on this important work.</p>
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