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	Comments on: Strengthening the Climate Movement: A Response to Bill McKibben	</title>
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	<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-movement-bill-mckibben-response/</link>
	<description>Social movement strategy for a sustainable and democratic society</description>
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		<title>
		By: Kip Gardner		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-movement-bill-mckibben-response/#comment-21</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kip Gardner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Aug 2019 20:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=259#comment-21</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for a cogent article.  I have been saying for some time now that concentrated wealth needs to be considered a type of pollution - it certainly meets Buckminster Fuller&#039;s definition.  Our growth-oriented economy is in essence a pollution-oriented economy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for a cogent article.  I have been saying for some time now that concentrated wealth needs to be considered a type of pollution &#8211; it certainly meets Buckminster Fuller&#8217;s definition.  Our growth-oriented economy is in essence a pollution-oriented economy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: admin		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-movement-bill-mckibben-response/#comment-14</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Aug 2019 20:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=259#comment-14</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-movement-bill-mckibben-response/#comment-11&quot;&gt;ThisOldMan&lt;/a&gt;.

Great recommendation--I have Auzanneau&#039;s book and plan to cite it in my own! I believe that social stability is a prerequisite for a massive, coordinated transition to a sustainable society, an unprecedented undertaking that a deep depression would likely block. Even as activists open political and cultural space for the transition, we must also maintain enough stability to make it possible. We should be wary of a catastrophe befalling a population unprepared to solve it. History shows that social movements have advanced democracy in significant ways--a mass movement with a full analysis of the root causes of inequality and ecological collapse might be capable of bringing about a new society.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-movement-bill-mckibben-response/#comment-11">ThisOldMan</a>.</p>
<p>Great recommendation&#8211;I have Auzanneau&#8217;s book and plan to cite it in my own! I believe that social stability is a prerequisite for a massive, coordinated transition to a sustainable society, an unprecedented undertaking that a deep depression would likely block. Even as activists open political and cultural space for the transition, we must also maintain enough stability to make it possible. We should be wary of a catastrophe befalling a population unprepared to solve it. History shows that social movements have advanced democracy in significant ways&#8211;a mass movement with a full analysis of the root causes of inequality and ecological collapse might be capable of bringing about a new society.</p>
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		<title>
		By: admin		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-movement-bill-mckibben-response/#comment-13</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Aug 2019 20:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=259#comment-13</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-movement-bill-mckibben-response/#comment-12&quot;&gt;Mike Friedman&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks Mike! I think we are in agreement. Wealth inequality arises from structural factors like the concentrated ownership of economic institutions, the tax code, and the degree to which our society provides public goods. I believe those structural factors remain unchanged for several reasons, one of which is a lack of moral clarity about the unequal distribution of ownership and wealth. If it was common sense that no one can truly deserve to have such vast wealth, then elites would have more trouble attacking efforts to establish limits on consumption/accumulation that aim to preserve the natural world.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-movement-bill-mckibben-response/#comment-12">Mike Friedman</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks Mike! I think we are in agreement. Wealth inequality arises from structural factors like the concentrated ownership of economic institutions, the tax code, and the degree to which our society provides public goods. I believe those structural factors remain unchanged for several reasons, one of which is a lack of moral clarity about the unequal distribution of ownership and wealth. If it was common sense that no one can truly deserve to have such vast wealth, then elites would have more trouble attacking efforts to establish limits on consumption/accumulation that aim to preserve the natural world.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike Friedman		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-movement-bill-mckibben-response/#comment-12</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Friedman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Aug 2019 14:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=259#comment-12</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Excellent piece. One comradely amendment: 
You note that &quot;In a truly sustainable future there will be no solar billionaires, or billionaires of any kind, because a non-growing economy requires limits to inequality. When we don’t question the deepest assumptions on which our society is built, such as whether anyone can justifiably claim to deserve such unlimited wealth, it leaves untapped the transformative clarity and moral outrage that a full-scale climate movement needs.&quot; But, the reason is structural, and not just moral.  Capital accumulation -- capitalist growth -- produces both that inequality AND ecological crises. And capital accumulation, in turn, is based on fundamental inequality, that between owners of capital, those who make market and investment decisions, and ordinary working people, who, in one way or another, are exploited to produce both the wealth and a growing gulf between haves and have-nots.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent piece. One comradely amendment:<br />
You note that &#8220;In a truly sustainable future there will be no solar billionaires, or billionaires of any kind, because a non-growing economy requires limits to inequality. When we don’t question the deepest assumptions on which our society is built, such as whether anyone can justifiably claim to deserve such unlimited wealth, it leaves untapped the transformative clarity and moral outrage that a full-scale climate movement needs.&#8221; But, the reason is structural, and not just moral.  Capital accumulation &#8212; capitalist growth &#8212; produces both that inequality AND ecological crises. And capital accumulation, in turn, is based on fundamental inequality, that between owners of capital, those who make market and investment decisions, and ordinary working people, who, in one way or another, are exploited to produce both the wealth and a growing gulf between haves and have-nots.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ThisOldMan		</title>
		<link>https://freedomsurvival.org/climate-movement-bill-mckibben-response/#comment-11</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ThisOldMan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Aug 2019 14:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://freedomsurvival.org/?p=259#comment-11</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes, climate change, inequality and war are inextricably linked (for a history, see &quot;Oil, Power &#038; War&quot; by Matthieu Auzanneau). But the people of the USA as well as the world as a whole have been fighting to end gross inequality now at least since the industrial revolution, and overall they&#039;ve been losing badly (see e.g. http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/176592/). The only significant exception was Roosevelt&#039;s concessions to labor during the great depression. This makes it seem likely that a climate chaos induced depression will be needed to spur action on the scale described here. Unfortunately by then we will most likely have crossed one or more climate tipping points.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, climate change, inequality and war are inextricably linked (for a history, see &#8220;Oil, Power &amp; War&#8221; by Matthieu Auzanneau). But the people of the USA as well as the world as a whole have been fighting to end gross inequality now at least since the industrial revolution, and overall they&#8217;ve been losing badly (see e.g. <a href="http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/176592/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/176592/</a>). The only significant exception was Roosevelt&#8217;s concessions to labor during the great depression. This makes it seem likely that a climate chaos induced depression will be needed to spur action on the scale described here. Unfortunately by then we will most likely have crossed one or more climate tipping points.</p>
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